NYCC and Who the F*** is Jim??
A couple of things!
One, unlike every single other cartoonist in the world, I will not be at New York Comic Con this weekend. BUT, my stuff will be! Blind Ferret will be at Booth #1821 with GWS goodies, LICD & LFG goodies, and good ol’ Joel Watson of Hijinks Ensue. Go tell them I said hi! Rub Sohmer & Becker’s heads, call Lar “Uncle,” and tell Joel you like his shirts.
Two! I’ve gotten enough questions about Jim (the blond guy; scroll down a bit) that I feel I should recap a bit for you:
Jim works with Jamie at the flower shop. He used to kinda creep on her. He also briefly creeped on Hazel, although in reality it wasn’t creepy at all. Jim is forgettable to most women. He joined the Members Only (clever name for the guys’ club) last year. But it seems, recently, that he’s not fitting in all that well.
We’ll see more of Jim soon, for better or for worse.
Kneel down, humans, and bow before Greator, ruler of the Blaxxian dimension! Kraa!
trololololooo!
I noticed that too. XD
How can people forget Jim? Honestly, it’s like they haven’t read the whole archive!
Sports and rec books are nowhere near as hefty and scary to be hit with as cookbooks. Used to work at a library, and a shelf with cookbooks decided to no longer care to work as I walked under it. Not fun. And reference books, those need to be registered as deadly weapons.
Pretty low bar for creeping.
Who’s Jim again? I forget. :P
(Durr hurr I’m funnie)
Sooo, what does that look actually mean?
“GTFAway”, or “keep talking”?
Because if it’s the former then I discover I can easily diffuse it by engaging in small talk about whatever subject is around.
“Hey, wanna go out some time?”
*glare*
“So, how about that Lady Gaga?”
“Hey, wanna go out some time?”
*glare*
“There’s something on your forehead.”
“What?”
“Some kid of insect.”
*brushes completely clean forehead*
“Yeah, it’s gone now. Sorry if I seemed rude, no hard feelings I hope. I’m [Jesus DeSaad], nice to meet you!”
…how is that now creepy and manipulative? You’re kicking off your interaction with her by lying to her so that she interacts with you when she doesn’t want to.
So list of creepy stalkery guys is: Jim, Tucker, Vincent, and to lesser degree Tyler?
don’t forget me.
Hmm. That is getting to be a long list. But I don’t think Vincent was stalkery or creepy… just sad. He had a good memory… but one does tend to remember one’s high school crush. And he remembered that he had left Hazel a present, which she never cashed in on. So when she brought it in, he just remembered her and his gift, but didn’t act towards her in any way that was creepy.
Um… really… you don’t take his ‘Anytime.’ as a touch creepy? He’s less stalkery then some, but that is like being called less violent then the Punisher, Carnage, Rath the Appoplexian, Doomsday, Jason Vorhees, and Chucky.
Too bad you won’t make it to NYCC at all. Oh well, maybe I’ll see you somewhere next year.
Clearly, you have succeeded at making Jim as forgettable as he is supposed to be in the story. Great job! :D
(I mean that seriously, even though I remembered him. I did have to go and make sure that Vincent wasn’t already introduced, however.)
Yeah, that confused me a bit at first, too. But I did forget about Jim…
I think that after this arc is done, Danielle would make a killing selling it as educational material to high schools/colleges. Many dudes worldwide would benefit from Clarice’s tutoring.
It’s not that woman forgot Jim, we (I) just didn’t know he was a blonde. Color helps us remember the traits we like about them. I’m glad you started coloring them in I LOVE IT!
You go Clarice! Whip those unsociable guys into shape! :D
But seriously, I so appreciate what Clarice is doing. I swear, from the years I owned a comic book store I should have been getting some type of funding for being a councilor for un-socialized men (and teens).
Most of the time they’re just shy and have never talked to a girl, have gotten terrible advice from somebody else (ie. a jerky older brother, a terrible lying friend who wanted to sound great) or they learned how to deal with women from watching… *sighs* porn. I mean really, why is it that so many men think that porn is a good teaching tool to learn about women, relationships and sex?!
I miss the older drawing style.. Jamie’s lips used to be huuuggee and awesome :(
Don’t worry Jim, we remember you.
Haha, I did recognize Jim, but I was a bit thrown off by the color. I think he’s been in color strips before, but we see him so rarely that I think I forgot he was blonde.
Also, much love for Clarice right now. If she was around to hit all the guys who think that being a jerk to women is a good idea…why, I probably wouldn’t be so scared of boys xD
That look means ‘get away before I rip your d*** off and shove it down your throat’
It’s an unfortunate truth that there are women out there determined to hate us guys no matter what we do. Tucker, however, I admit makes it pretty easy for women to hate him.
All the same, don’t start worrying immediately if you get that look, fellas. Even the best-looking, most charming guy will get that look from a certain woman or two.
Sorry, I didn’t remember Jim either. Had to go back a few strips to check that it wasn’t the guy from the ice cream stand. Whom I’m gonna guess is the long lost Vincent.
Well, he was wearing a nametag that said Vincent, so it probably was him. :)
Your eyes must be better than mine. I couldn’t read that squiggle, thought it was just the shop logo or something.
It was really tiny; I could barely make it out. I don’t think it’s my eyes, though, maybe it was my monitor. My eyesight isn’t that great. :)
I believe the correct term for that look is “withering”.
As in, “that look just made my genitals wither and die”.
I don’t think men think that porn is a good teaching tool. I think that men watch it because it’s one of the few places that they can see a woman who appears enthusiastic about being in the same room with a man.
I thought Jim was gay.. or is that a different character?
That’s Darren. I got them confused, too, and had to go to the cast page to straighten it out.
Part of this reminds me of one year when I saw an acquaintance I knew from college.
I politely said “Hey, long time no see. How are things going?”
response: “I’m a lesbian. This is my girlfriend. I think there are some women over that way.”
My thought. “I wasn’t even trying to ask you out. What the hell?” But I’m too polite.
Thats because all guys are drooling sexual predators man! Didnt you get the memo? Probably for the best you didnt say anything, shed have just thought you were backpedalling and still wanted in her pants anyway.
Haha! its funny cos he got hit! Reminds me of the time i gave my missus a slap when she made me the wrong sort of sandwich… b***h should know better! i mean i did stare at her! shes supposed to read my mind and know EXACTLYwhat i wanted!… am i right people?………. wha? thats not funny you say??…
*cough* anyhoo, this training is utterly pointless because theres no standardised rules for social situations. To one person youre being ‘pushy’ to another your being ‘confidenct’ its all a matter of timing and the state of mind of the person youre approaching.
Guy was a douche for using blackmail… but this seems a little cruel, he thinks hes getting tips about how to talk to women ( tbh hes not THAT socailly inept for cryin out loud, he can already speak to women) but all he’s gonna end up with is a phobia of/fetish for women within armslength of a hefty book.
Considering his penchant for harassing library staff, Clarice may not view that end result as an entirely negative thing.
Hmm negative reinforcement to make him shun libraries?! what an evil genius!
Mostly for the worse.
Please kill Jim with a city bus or something. Please. And, soon. I really can’t stand him. He’s almost as bad as Vincent is. And as Tucker is.
In fact… I’m starting to feel overrun with weak and unloveable men.
yeah… as a man, you can’t let that look stop you. and 60% of the time, that look is just a test to see if you have the stones to keep trying. sorry clarice. you’ve failed tucker as a teacher.
As a woman, I think that using that look as a “test” is childish and inappropriate, and it encourages men to “keep trying” even when the woman wants to be left alone.
Ok- so if I actually want a guy to leave me along what do I look and say that wont be interpreted as a test/hard to get/not serious? At what point is a woman taken seriously when she communicates she doesn’t want something? Because, it seems no matter how clear a woman is, some guy thinks it’s all just a head game.
This. “No” means “no.” Disinterest means disinterest. There are plenty of people out there, no reason to keep trying to hit on somebody who is not receptive (which could be for any number of reasons).
“He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine . . . A salesman is got to dream, boy.
–Death of a Salesman
Salesmanship (n.)-
“By studying salesmanship, Scouts can learn self-confidence, motivation, friendliness, and the persistence necessary to overcome obstacles and solve problems.”
(Don Draper is my hero.)
French women have perfected this technique. Don’t look at the guy. At least not into his eyes, because then you let the guy know that you have noticed him. Look a little bit past him. The message is loud ‘n clear: “the wall behind you is more interesting than you’re”. Feels colder than a penguin’s nipple at the receiving end.
odd. I was at a club last night and there was this guy who was convinced he “knew me”. I shoved him away, told him to leave me alone, and then did the stare past him technique you say above. He still tried to hug me all the time, eventually my boyfriend (who was on my arm the entire time) told him I obviously didn’t remember him.
Sure, if you want to end up with a manipulative sociopath who completely changes her tune (for the worse) the day you tie the knot. I speak as both a woman and someone who has witnessed the misfortune of male friends who get “hooked” by such women. Mind games are never a good sign—just as it’s not a good sign for a women to get hooked up with a man who’s a nasty, unsupportive bunghole, bc “that’s just how men are.” Um… Nope. You can’t figure out what’s healthy in a relationship, take a break and love yourself. Someone worthwhile will come along and if they don’t it’s a hell of a lot better to be on your own than with someone who makes you miserable (and potentially having *kids* with them).
^^ This ^^
If you really think this, I’m willing to bet you’ve had an awful lot of troubled relationships.
Thank you so much for mansplaining to us women what our looks and intentions are! It sure is a good thing jackasses like you know better than the women you’re approaching how they feel.
Guys like you are seriously why I’m scared for the world my daughter is growing up in and am already teaching her at age 3 that she’s not required to smile for anyone and definitely not obligated to hug or touch anyone she doesn’t want to. Her body is hers. Anyone who tries thinking no means yes with her, because they think they obviously know she’s just playing hard to get, is going to get a faceful of pain.
Yes, mistress. Forgive us, mistress. We will pay the invoice on time, mistress.
I like that Jim is in your comic because it deals with the subject of “involuntary celibacy” (I can’t believe there’s a big fancy word for it–I just referred to it as “cursed” back when I had it). Millions of perfectly nice people suffer from this unfortunate condition and to add insult to injury it is usually assumed (without examination) that it is the person’s own fault. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it is a matter of circumstances that are not quite right, and bad luck.
As a woman, that look means “Who the heck are you? Go away.”
It most emphatically does ~not~ mean “Try harder.”
It’s not a test. It means “go away”.
Stop hitting him, Clarice. But definitely keep teaching him.
Word.
Once upon a time, I broke up with my (now ex) fiance. Right afterwards I went to the Inner Harbor to toss the ring into the bay. On my way back to my car I was confronted by this dork who kept following me and hounding me for a date. When I finally lost it and told him “take a hike!” he looked at me like I kicked his puppy and said, “buh-but, it’s my *birthdaaaaay*!”
Then there were at least two other clueless men who loudly “hinted” they hadn’t had sex in forever to try to woo me to bed with them. The sad thing is none of these guys were unattractive (two of them I would have found cute in different circumstances), but the desperateness, bad timing, and lack of consideration that I was a person (not their personal wind-up toy) was a real turnoff.
Keep the Tucker lessons coming – I’m learning new stuff!
ah woo!
I *love* your name! Hee! (/giggles and blushes)
Thanks. It’s one of many i came up with when bored one night, thinking of band names.
As funny as this is, if Tucker were a girl, and Clarice a man, no one would be laughing. ): And believe me, there are plenty of girls who are just as inept and can’t take a hint.
Good luck trying to get any woman to admit either point is true though =D
I am and I do. The double standard is part of why things like spousal and child abuse still exist.
I agree with this as well… plenty of socially-inept women around and also reversing gender roles in a lot of situations is really eye-opening.
Man-on-woman violence (rape included, obviously) is statistically much higher than woman-on-man, even if you take into account violence that’s not reported. Accordingly, a man not taking a hint is creepier/scarier than a woman not taking a hint.
On reflection i think its becoming obvious Clarice has some issues herself… she only seems able to interact with men in the capacity of a dominatrix. Fear and violence arent acceptable tools of social interaction young lady!
Actually, nobody -at least nobody who’s been reading GWSL for any length of time- would pretend that Clarice is a healthy, well-adjusted gal. That’s part of what makes her trying to coach Tucker so fun! Actually, I have a nasty feeling that these two might end up together.
I actually think it would be kinda cute if they did end up together. Tucker seems, for the most part, well-intentioned, even if his methods are highly lacking. :)
Agh! I really REALLY wish I’d seen this sooner. ):
I will always remember Jim for the baseball line….
“Jameson, I’m a lesbian. My first base is “She’s Not Straight.”"
“That’s my foul ball. I hit a lot of those.”
I think part of the problem is that most people consider it rude (or are afraid it would be considered rude by others) to tell someone you don’t even know to just go away. So instead we rely on body language to do it for us, leaving the other person to guess what we’re thinking. It’s unfortunate, really.
Yeahhhhhh sign me up in the “I don’t think it’s cute or funny that Clarice is hitting him” camp. And honestly, I don’t think he has to “fuck off” after getting that look. Looks can be misleading. A “fuck off” look for one woman can well be “yeah, and? Go on, impress me” look for another. If she doesn’t respond or otherwise gives a CLEAR indication of disinterest, that’s another matter.
ha! boring? she has a thing for him.
Ehhh, I actually agree with Clarice. If someone was giving me that look I’d also back the fuck off. If a person starts smiling and talking to you, versus glaring at you and saying nothing, I’d say that’s a pretty clear indication of whether or not you should continue talking.
The only issue with verbalizing “fuck off” (even if you use a nicer phrase) is that some guys seem to think that they’re doing you a favor by hitting on you (because, yanno, a woman’s worth is only relevant to the men who want her *eyeroll*) and that can escalate the situation. There’s a lot of misogynistic socialization involved in women’s reluctance to actually tell a guy to knock it the fuck off.
*Misandry
You shoulda gone to NYCC – it was a blast!
Body language, expressions, and other non-verbal communication can be devilishly difficult to interpret. Some people have a knack for it. Some people get a lot of practice growing up, and learn it through exposure.
But people without the knack, and with little to no social experience under their belt, have learned to rely on words and only words to figure out what other people are feeling. After all, they can misread an expression, but surely her words will be 100% accurate? Why bother messing around with the error rate of non-verbal communication when you can just go off what they’re saying, and thus be certain you’re not missing anything?
I try hard to figure out my wife’s non-verbal communication, but I seem to be wrong most of the time. We’ve had the “if you want help with something, just ASK me” conversation a million times.
And on the flip side, she often asks me what’s wrong, and won’t take “nothing” or “I don’t know” for an answer, because as far as she’s concerned my body language is screaming “I’m upset” and she wants to figure out how to help. I totally lack the ability to know what my own body language is communicating and change it. As far as I’m concerned, her asking me is totally unexpected. I wasn’t aware I was communicating anything at all.
THIS.
com·mu·ni·ca·tion
3. The successful conveying or sharing of ideas and feelings.
I can not understand the comments in this thread that imply a twitchy eyebrow is the equivalent of clearly defined speech. As far as body language goes, the middle finger is an example of something we can all understand. We can agree on its common, general meaning. A “look”, on the other hand, seems to be on the same level as trying to psychically beam a message with your mind. (Especially where people of different cultural backgrounds are involved.)
Many people don’t speak “look.” Please broaden your vocabulary.
People are better at interpreting these cues than they think they are. When asked, men and women can easily identify how THEY would communicate disinterest and refusal, and enumerate reasons why they would do it indirectly–to not hurt someone’s feelings, to avoid making a scene, to save face if they are misjudging the situation themselves, to de-escalate rather than escalate a confrontation, etc. They can also name these things as they are happening when they watch others interact. Certainly signals can be misread–but Tucker wasn’t misreading the signals. He knew the glare was a negative response, he thought it meant “try harder,” not “I like you” or “I’m intrigued, go on,” so he knew what he had already done was not working. He just has misguided beliefs about how women use negative responses–that a glare means try harder and not I’m not interested. As usual, for men, no is the end of a conversation, and for women it’s the opening of a negotiation. Clarice was pretty verbal about her no, and he still thought it meant try harder. It’s also kind of unreasonable to expect women to give a disproportionately aggressive response–verbalizing “fuck off”–to an unwanted but non-aggressive advance like “hi, my name is tucker,” especially given that women in particular are taught from a young age that their boundaries and wants are second to other people’s wants, that it is their social job to be polite and accommodating, and that violence is a real potential consequence of making men feel rejected or belittled. I agree hitting him is wrong and unlikely to be helpful, but I think the message she’s trying to teach is a good one. Yes, it would be helpful if more women were more direct in the way that they phrase rejection, instead of relying on body language or thin excuses that prioritize face-saving for all parties over a clear communication of their boundaries. But look at the ways we punish women who do–tell someone you’re not interested, and suddenly you’re a bitch, whereas the guy who is pushing your boundaries is just “persistent.” Ultimately, we shouldn’t even be living in the world of ambiguous body language–if someone isn’t clearly interested in you, don’t waste your time. Why would you even want to talk to someone who is just barely this side of not wanted to talk to you? Consent (in any kind of social relations) shouldn’t be about walking a fine line in the middle of a grey area where it’s uncomfortable for everyone but technically not bad–it should be out in observable (and preferably verbal) enthusiasm. From all parties.
Agreeing to this comment. :\
NICEly put altogether.
Great comment! :D
This.
Thank you, Leah!
love this comment.
There’s no way I can be first on what my idea of what Tucker’s circumstances actually are, so I’ll keep quiet and see where this arc goes. If I’m wrong, I’ll just bring it up after :)
Also, so pleased @ everyone’s reasoning & girl-ego-respecting skills. :)
Particularly the part about “And then suddenly you’re a bitch.” Been there.
Well, if he’s easily forgettable by women, that explains why most of your readers didn’t remember him! ;D
I had also completely forgotten about him…. wow. What a genius character creation.
Actually Tucker, if the other person is naturally a person who doesn’t like confrontation, saying “fuck off” or even just “leave me alone” is EXTREMELY difficult. They don’t want to be aggressively hostile. Or they’re afraid that any sort of attempt at communication will result in the other party taking that as an opening in communications. So they instead choose are more passive approach like scowling, but ignoring the what the other person says.
And lets be frank, even giving Tucker the “Fuck off” look isn’t going to stop him. I mean, Clarice not only gave him the look, but also told him “leave me alone” and he still kept pushing her, even going so far as to try and blackmail her.
While I know people who are naturally incapable of reading other people, I kinda wonder if Tucker has some low level asperger’s syndrome. I mean, even my most social inept friends understand the “fuck off scowl” or will back off if someone says “I’m not interested”.
Asperger’s is pretty common, although at lower grades you do get into the “by that standard, *everyone* is abnormal” diagnosis.
It makes Clarice’s teaching techniques useful though — can’t miss the social cue of a book to the back of the head :)
Didn’t know so many behavioral psychologists read GWS. Christ people, save it for your thesis, it’s a comic with a drunk talking cactus.
In-depth discussion about her characters shows that we are really enjoying her comic. I think we’ll continue, thanks.
Also, if offering a comments section is some subtle cue to f off and not comment or discuss, I’m, like, missing it. :-D
Awesome. lol
Yeah… you must not understand how art works. Art, even in comics, is created to induce THINKING, as well as entertainment.
We enjoy to think and to analyze. The fact that Danielle can create such discussion amongst her fans regarding her characters is a good sign that she’s a successful cartoonist.
Why are you trying to diminish her accomplishments by telling us not to think and analyze? That’s very inconsiderate of you Shawn.
Ah the differences between guys and gals. The f off look and f off just being said.
As for Jim and Tucker…I hope their streams don’t pass or if they do, it will probably make for some face-palm hilariousness!
It always amazes me how little conception guys have of the everyday dangers of presenting as a woman. If I were to tell guys flirting with me to fuck off, no matter how much I want to, I would be putting myself in real, physical danger. Nope, I think I’ll just stick with the “fuck off” looks, thanks.
Please please please don’t let this story line end up saying “women are just complicated and the communication of emotions is too difficult for most people to understand.” Like elsbethrenee said, there are times when saying “fuck off” is COMPLETELY inappropriate, not boring or easy. I’m really interested in where this goes but not if it ends up chastising women (not to mention men) for their emotional presentation. Or even for having feelings more subtle than “fuck off.”